It's not over yet! John Wagner and Dan Cromwell's extraterrestrial football title returns in the Judge Dredd Megazine #476, with a new third installment on its way.
ANDREW IRVIN: John, Dan; thanks for stepping into the Yeti Cave to chat about Rok of the Reds. Happy New Year! How was the holiday season up in the UK?
JOHN WAGNER: It’s over, that’s the main thing! I’m not a great one for holidays, I find them too disrupting. Still, I will admit I did enjoy Christmas this year.
DAN CORNWELL: Christmas was great, though I did work through it, well, some of it. I don’t much care for New Year's celebration. I do look forward to what the new year has in store though. Quite a bit, it would appear.
CBY: It's an age of accelerationism, indeed. Rok of the Reds (and the subsequent Rok the God) first ran through Black Hearted Press (BHP) in 2018 and 2019, and now the third installment, Rok the World, is forthcoming once the Meg brings everyone up to speed. Can you walk us through the general premise of the series, and how it first started to come together?
JW: The series had its origins in an anthology comic Alan Grant and I were creating (but in the end abandoned) back in the 90s. A typical UK anthology comic usually included a football story, and we felt we needed something entirely different. Why not, we wondered, an ALIEN footballer – combine two popular genres, draw in both the football fans and sci-fi lovers?
We wrote the first part of the story, featuring an incredibly unpleasant, dislikeable (but extremely talented) young footballer Kyle Dixon, who just happens to run smack into a powerful alien shape-changer arriving on planet Earth to hide out from pursuing assassins. He – Rok - takes on the identity of the first human he meets - Kyle. The first episode – it was pretty short, only three or maybe 6 pages max – ends with Rok saying “So – I am Rok of the Reds!”, Kyle’s team being the lowly Radford Reds.
The joy of the story is that Rok, at first scorning football as a foolish, primitive pastime, gradually falls in love with ‘the beautiful game’, becoming so skilful at it that he begins to lead the Reds in a glorious Cup run. Unfortunately the assassins are closing in…
DC: We both wanted to do a third series, but it proved difficult. It’s an expensive endeavour to get a 120+ book together. With all the will in the world we just couldn’t find a way to get it done. The last book through Kickstarter was a success but it still owes John money and there are so many extra costs that crop up. Then there’s the work that running a Kickstarter involves.
Thankfully Matt Smith and the Meg were happy to run the third series, which is just great. We can now bring the world of Rok to a wider audience. Who knows where that might lead?
CBY: When did you start planning out the new story arc, and what considerations led into setting up its current run and continuation?
JW: If you mean book three, Dan and I are incredibly fond of Rok. It’s been a burning desire to carry the story on, but – independent publishing being so financially draining - it looked like we’d never get it off the ground. So when Rebellion’s Matt Smith agreed to run it in the Megazine we were, in football parlance, over the moon.
It’s early days at the moment and we’re still working out exactly where the story will go. But that’s generally the way I work anyway. I’m never quite sure where a story is going until I get there.
CBY: Going as the path opens and letting the story find its way is not an approach every writer takes, so I'm keen to see how the tale unfolds over coming issues. Dan, you’ve mentioned the challenge of making static illustrations of football look dynamic. John, do you run through the back and forth on the football pitch in great detail across the page, or do you both have a shared means of diagramming/storyboarding the plot progression? What have you both found makes static depictions of sports different from other types of action on the page?
JW: Frankly, I describe what I want and leave the rest to Dan. We’re both keen football watchers so I know Dan’s quite capable of rendering anything required.
DC: It’s been done very well by many amazing artists before I started, so I looked at what they done and used that as a reference along with the usual photo ref and ridiculous selfies. I just wanted the art to look a bit more full-on and not like it’s from the 70’s. Not that 70’s art was bad - far, far from it - I just wanted Rok to look more modern and for it to appeal to a broader audience. Hopefully it appealed to not only those who loved these types of books in the 70’s and 80’s, but to young kids today also.
CBY: I think you found a good balance with both some playful "general audience" elements alongside a bit of the grit readers may expect from a Rebellion title, Dan. Regarding the creative collaboration involved in the return of Rok of the Reds, you’ve also brought in Abigail Bulmer on colours, and Jim Campbell on letters. I’ve seen Jim’s name on other 2000 AD material, but how did these two end up fitting into the mix for this title, and will they both be returning for the third series of new material?
JW: Abby was recommended to us by Matt Smith right at the start. Unfortunately she had to drop out during book two, Rok the God, so we brought in Jim Boswell on colours. For book three, we’re ringing the changes again with Dylan Teague on colours. Dylan’s a fine artist in his own right, but Dan’s been doing a bit of work with him on colours and we’re both keen to see what he’ll do with Rok.
Jim Campbell is a treasure. No only does he do the lettering (with excellent sound effects!) but he handles all the design and layout work as well. And logos.
DC: I’ve been very fortunate in having some incredibly talented artists colour my work. Abby and Jim did stellar work on the last two books and I’m very proud of them; they’re fantastic books. Bringing in Dylan Teague is just another evolutionary step in the world of Rok. His colours suit my changing style and I believe the readers will be in for an absolute treat once the third series begins, just as they were for the first two books. This is going to be good.
Jim Campbell is just a joy to work with. His knowledge alone makes him huge asset to the Rok team, add to that his lettering and design skills and he’s just irreplaceable. He ties everything together and makes the process smooth running.
CBY: Regarding visual style, John, I know you selected Dan based upon some of his zine work, but what sort of guidance did you provide regarding the style you were after with Rok of the Reds? I'm also aware Roy of the Rovers picks up a nod as a fellow football title, but what influences have you both discussed to land on the aesthetic of this comic? Dan, what sort of techniques, tools, and equipment do you employ to achieve the characteristic look of your work?
DC: My tools and style have changed over the last 10 years, so it’s hard to remember exactly what my process was for the original series. I was really just starting out there, so it’s much more raw than my current work. I know I used photo references and copies of Roy of the Rovers and the like to help. I probably wouldn’t do that now I’m more experienced. I can trust my own ability more than I did then. Still, I will require reference on certain pages and panels, and thankfully there’s plenty of that out there thanks to the internet etc.
JW: Once again, I pretty much leave it to Dan. I picked him because I liked what I saw of his work in one of the 2000 AD fanzines, so I trust him to give the story his best. He’s never let Rok down and indeed, just seems to be getting better and better.
CBY: It must be reassuring to have a relationship based upon mutual confidence in each other's capabilities. Let’s talk about relegation and promotion, and expand it beyond football leagues. Since it’s now 2025, and we’ve turned the page to the new year, what trends or features of the comics industry (and society more broadly) would you like to see promoted this year, and what would you like to see relegated to the past?
DC: Promotion; I still would like to see comic books in local shops and stores. It’s a sad state to see the lack of comics readily available to people, and the need to go to a speciality shop just to get them. Not every town has a speciality comic shop. I recently visited Japan, and the comic industry is booming with books available everywhere. That’s what we need. If they’re not on the shelves and have a visual presence then no-one will buy them.
Relegation; Politicians need to f**king grow up and social media can do one.
CBY: I'll second both of those propositions! Your respective routes towards a career in comics began in very different ways at very different times in the industry’s evolution. 2000 AD approaches 50 years of ongoing publication, and Judge Dredd Megazine is nearly 35. John, you have had an indelible impact on pop culture, and Dan, you have stood out through your art and found space to work on comics you grew up reading. What can you both share with our readers about the approach you take in your ongoing creative effort and the creative ethos that enables you to stay energized, engaged, and productive in your respective careers?
DC: I just want to remain relevant, and that’s tricky when you’re an artist. Fashions and trends come and go so your art may be popular now, but what about in 10 years? I try to be distinctive so you can recognise my work from others, but not too distinctive that it’s just a trend. It’s a balancing act. Though I don’t tend to think like that when I’m working, I just get on with it.
JW: I figure if I enjoy what I’m doing the readers will too. If it’s a labour then that will convey itself as well.
CBY: There has been a lot of controversial attention heaped on the world of Judge Dredd, with Elon Musk trying to hitch his Cybertruck to your sci-fi legacy, John. As you’ve both tangled with writing stories in dystopian worlds, do either of you have any commentary on what our actual society should be taking away from your work to avoid finding ourselves in a state that increasingly resembles that of Mega-City One and the Cursed Earth?
JW: I don’t think Musk understands Dredd, but then he doesn’t understand much of what he shoots his mouth off about.
DC: I think he plays up to his reputation. He riles people up and they react. It’s like poking a wasps nest with a stick. You get people like that, who can’t just walk away, and feel the need to vent their anger, frustration or opinions. He’s the current villain, there’ll be a lot more of them to come. And everyone sharing posts about him are feeding him the oxygen. Why bother yourself with this social media furor? It’s boring.
CBY: Yes, it's unfortunate he's egregiously overcapitalized and it has allowed him to amplify various villainous positions with apparently very little self-awareness. John and Dan, thanks for making time to stop by the Yeti Cave today! Please feel free to share any portfolio, publication, and social media links for our audience to find you and your work online.
JW: I’ve just launched my own website at johnwagner.co.uk. Exclusive to the site is my memoir, A Life in Comics. Part one is up now; subsequent parts will appear as and when.
There’s also a shop where you can purchase a few volumes of my work. Physical copies in the UK only, I’m afraid, but if you’re unable to get hold of the Judge Dredd Megazine and would like to check out the adventures of Rok, both books are available digitally worldwide.
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